"So, how many Muslim Malays actually realized that the Catholic newsletter ‘The Herald’ publication permit will be withheld unless it stops its Malay section? The Malay section has used “Allah” to refer to God, I mean to be more specific, Christian god and father of Jesus Christ, while the English section still uses the term 'God'. Two different terms for God in one edition. When the Malaysian government has decided to stop this practice from continuing, with a Minister stating that the term “Allah”, “solat” and “Baitullah” are reserved for Islam religion, so as not to confuse Muslims in this country, the Catholics protest.
Hmmm…I’m really amused. There they are, the Christians, the politicians, and the ‘human rights’ activists all hopping mad about this issue and putting the blame on the government-led politicians, while the rest of us go about our daily lives peacefully. And what’s the issue?
Christians claim that they have the right to use ‘Allah taala’ in their Malay-language Bible, and in other publications for East Malaysian Christians. They also claim that ‘Allah’ is a Arabic terminology for God in the Arab nations, so all Arabs, whether they’re Muslims, Christians or Jews, call their gods ‘Allah’. And yes, some Malaysians agree with this view; that it’s all right for Christians to use this term ‘Allah’ in their sermon, and in their missionary work among Malaysians.
I disagree. The Arabic word for God is NOT Allah; it is 'Ilah'. Even the writing is different between 'Ilah' and 'Allah'. But then I suppose Malaysian Christian don't read Arabic. La ilaha illallah means There is no god but Allah.Funny really. All my life till recently, I had always believed that Christians, Buddhists and Hindus in Malaysia steer away from using the term “Allah” as a reference to God. Ask any Chinese ‘AhPek’ or Indian ‘Ayahmah’ on the street who “Allah” is and they’d tell you it’s the Malay’s god. Non-Muslims won’t even stop by nor touch anything which has the Arabic writing of ‘Allah’ or ‘Muhammad’ at the stores. If a beer-drinking pork-eating non-Muslim Malaysian man suddenly cries out, "Ya Allah! Masya-Allah! Allah Akbar..!!” his friends will be so horrified they’d probably think he’s possessed by the devil. They won’t calmly sit beside him and say, “Oh, he’s talking about the God of us all, our Creator.”
I went to Christians services in many churches in West Malaysia – Methodists, Baptists, AOG, Catholics – and I had never heard the word “Allah” mentioned by the pastor or priest. 'Alamak' doesn't count, ok.
So why do Catholics now insist on the terminology which has been used by Muslim Malays in Malaysia for centuries to refer to the God in Islam? Oh sure, Arab Christians use that term before Islam arrives in our land but heck, we are not in Saudi Arabia. All Arabs use this term to refer to God because it's their only language. We’re in Malaysia and the documented Malay translation for God is Tuhan, not Allah. That's why we have our Rukunegara as 'Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan.' to refer to all gods. Well, if some people seems to demand for the use of 'Allah' to refer to everybody's gods, then perhaps we should change our Rukunegara into 'Kepercayaan kepada Allah' to keep everybody happy :P
Why can’t Catholic Christians use the term ‘Tuhan’ in their Malay Bible, etc to refer to their Christian god? I've checked but I can't find the exact Iban word for God. However, I'm very sure that the Iban word for god is not Allah taala. It is just so that ever since the missionaries converted the Ibans (who had believed in animism) to Christianity, the term Allah taala has been used. They can get their message of God across by other terms such as God or Tuhan; why insist on using the term 'Allah' which Malaysians know is sacredly used by Muslims in this country to refer to God in Islam? Isn't that trying to be mischievous and stirring up confusion among the public?And that makes me wonder why the double standard; in West Malaysia, they use God in English sermons, but in East Malaysia where the majority are Malay speakers, they have chosen to use Allah taala instead to refer to the same god. Christian speakers dare not use the term 'Allah taala' before non-Iban congregation in West Malaysia because they know that Mandarin-speaking, Hindu-speaking and English-speaking Christians generally associate that word 'Allah' with Islam. Hah, the double standards. They can't even agree on which term to call their own God, so why so hell-bent on using 'Allah' for the Malay-speaking Christians?So why must Christians now insist on using ‘Allah’ for the Herald Malay section when they know very clearly that it is the name used by Muslims in this region for centuries before the first arrival of the Portuguese Christians in the 14th century? Some say they’re fighting for human rights? Yeah, go ahead and bark. If they are sincere, they’d change the term from ‘Allah’ into ‘Tuhan’ to get their massage and propaganda across. They don’t have to import Bibles from Indonesia with the term 'Allah'; After 50 years of independence, most Sarawakian and Sabahan Christians are literate in Bahasa Malaysia; they can publish their own Bahasa Malaysia Bibles. Unless of course, there is something else in their mind besides giving Bibles to Catholic Ibans?
As far as I know, Christians have no specific name for God. Some Christians think that it is Yahweh but then they are not sure themselves. Ask any Christian, or better still, a Roman Catholic, what the name of his or her god is, and I doubt he or she will say, “Allah”. The word that refers to God in Malaysian churches differs based on the languages of the Christian worshippers. A Chinese-based church may have a different terminology for God compared to an Indian-based church. I bet a Chinese pastor will not tell his Mandarin-speaking congregation to "pray to Allah, father of our Yesoh(Jesus)' else he might find the church empty the following week.But go ask any true Muslims the same question. We, Muslims are told that our God has 99 names, and the greatest name is Allah. It is written in the al-Quran itself. So all Muslims, throughout the world use “Allah” to refer to the God in Islam, the God of Prophet Muhammad and all prophets before him.
Even in translated versions of al-Quran, in Chinese, English etc, the name “Allah” is intact and not translated. That is the essence of Islam, for there is never a dispute about what the name of the Muslim God is. I don’t agree with those people who claim that we all pray to one god, therefore we have rights to call our gods in any way we want. Perhaps they can do that to their own gods but not the god I worship. My God “Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala” is not the same as the god Christians pray to. Allah s.w.t that I bow to does not have a human son. Allah who created me does not allow drinking of liquor and eating of pork. That is why I support the ban on the Malay section of the Herald for their use of “Allah” in their publications.Until the day all churches in West and East Malaysia use the term “Allah’ to refer to Christian god, I think that Christians have no base to claim the use of ‘Allah’ in their publications, here in Malaysia.
Also the Christians in America and British would most probably freak out if they are told that they have to call their God ‘Allah’ for haven’t they associated all things Islam to terrorism? And today, after all the bombings at Arab nations, the persecutions and mistreatments of Muslims in the West, some ‘enlightened’ Christian priests actually suggest the use of “Allah’ for God in the Western churches in order to bring Christians and Muslims together? How ironic.
Some Muslim Malays even say that since we are all Allah’s creatures, just allow the Christians to use it. We should be proud that Malaysian Christians want to use the word in publications,Bible and churches. Why all the fuss over one word? True enough, we are all Allah’s creations. However, if they are using His holy name for unIslamic purposes, should we as Muslims just stand by and allow that to happen?
March 2009
My opinion has not changed. In Islam Allah is the one and only God. He is the Eternal and Absolute. He begets not nor is He begotten. And there is none like Him.
Allah certainly has no son called Jesus Christ. Allah certainly does not exist in a concept of trinity.
This is Malaysia. Islam is here way before the arrival of Christianity. The name of Allah as the supreme God worshipped by Muslims has been used since the time Islam is spread to this region centuries ago.
When you go to a new home, you ask the host for permission to enter. If he says "Take off your shoes, this is Malaysia," as a respectful guest, you'd take off your shoes. You wouldn't impose your own cultural beliefs by rudely saying,"Oh,in my country, we wear shoes in our homes," and proceed to step into the host's living room with dirty shoeprints, would you?
Remember each country has its own laws and history. Here Allah has been widely accepted as the name of the Muslim God, Kaabah as the Muslim holy place and solat as the Muslim way of praying. Let's keep it that way.
Assalamualaikum.wrt.wbt.
ReplyDeleteI actually do not mind if the Christians use the word Allah.
Simply because Allah is the only God, our God. Christians already lost in their goal to confuse the muslims to accept their idea of trinity and Christianity, which a any sane mind will know its wrong and man made. If there are any Christians out there who thinks otherwise, I suggest you read your bible. I read the bible a few times and still see the flaw and error of human mistake even though the new publications tried to cover it up.
Reminds me of the dialogue of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) and the Christians. Our beloved Muhammad (mpbuh)even invited the Christians into the mosque and they (Christians) even prayed inside the mosque.
Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) starts the dialogue with....(tranlation)
Do you know OUR God, ALLAH .......
Do you know OUR God, ALLAH .......
Do you know OUR God, ALLAH .......
(I hope my translation is correct)
Yes there is only one God that is Allah. Not Gods. Only one God. Allah S.W.T. The Christians will try to use Allah's name to spread their religion. Along the way i am sure many will come to realize the truth of Islam when they try to understand the word 'Allah'. They will learn that Jesus is not Allah. Even the Jewish knows that.
For example if I ask where is this word 'Allah' in your bible, then they will show you a malay bible.
They ask them do they know that the malay bible is just translation. They they will say they dont know. Then tell them The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek. AND THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS ALLAH IN THE REAL ORIGINAL BIBLE.
AND JESUS SPEAKS ARAMAIC NOT HEBREW OR GREEK!
I can only see doors of opportunity to do da'wah to the Christians in Malaysia. We need to do our part to tell the confuse Christians who Allah really is.
And yes. Allah is the one and only God. He is the Eternal and Absolute. He begets not nor is He begotten. And there is none like Him.
(the above is my personal opinion and I strongly believe if all Muslims do their very best, one day all the Christians will even stop using the word Allah because when they know the truth and lies, they will not want to be Christians)
I do agree with you Kak Aliya. This part,
ReplyDelete"They can get their message of God across by other terms such as God or Tuhan; why insist on using the term 'Allah' which Malaysians know is sacredly used by Muslims in this country to refer to God in Islam? Isn't that trying to be mischievous and stirring up confusion among the public?And that makes me wonder why the double standard; in West Malaysia, they use God in English sermons, but in East Malaysia where the majority are Malay speakers, they have chosen to use Allah taala instead to refer to the same god."
sounds like they have 'udang sebalik batu' by using the word Allah Taala. I believe it is part of their mission in converting more people to Christianity and now their target is Malay Muslims.
salam kak Aliya.
ReplyDeletei think the reason is clear. they merely want to confuse the mind of some simple minded Malays, by telling them that their version and understanding of Allah is the same as Muslim, so there is nothing wrong to follow the Christian teachings since both use Allah.
It is not about the fact that Allah is the ONLY God. We Muslims know that very well, but the danger of how the use of Allah in the Christian publications and the effect on the understanding of the concept is the issue here. The same issue would apply if a Buddhist decides to name his berhala as Allah, then should we allow that, since Allah is the ONLY God, and we shouldnt object to his using of the name Allah for his idol, if we follow the Christian publication way.
Before anyone use Allah to refer to his or her God, he or she should first accept and recite the syahadah, confirming Islam as his or her religion. The usage of Allah simply to refer to any form of God in the name of any religion is absolutely wrong and unacceptable, in any condition and by any reason.
assalamualaikum..
ReplyDeletedulu saya christian catholic..
dari kecil saya p church, kat church "kami" nyanyi guna buku (in malay version)
buku itu tak diubah sampai sekarang kecuali tambah lagu baru
dan sebenarnya dalam buku yang saya kenal dari kecil itu banyak pun guna nama Allah dlm lagu untuk merujuk kepada Tuhan..
salam sakinah..
ReplyDeletekenapa ya mereka gunakan Allah? y not jesus ataupun yesus seperti di indonesia?
hurm.. teringat beberapa bulan sudah, dapat tawaran untuk translate missionary notes orang kristian ke bahasa melayu. bila saya persoalkan kenapa perlu bahasa melayu, kenapa minta orang melayu yang terjemah, dan tanya siapa sasaran nota2 ini, terus nama saya diblacklist. haha. takpelah, lagi sanggup begitu dari bersubahat memudahkan urusan mengelirukan umat Islam.
'ASYADUALLAH ILLAHHAILLALLAH
ReplyDeleteWAASYADUANNA MUHAMMADUR RASULULLLAH'
Any Christians will agree with the first phase but non will agree with the latter. They agree there is no God but Allah S.W.T. (even though Christians believe in trinity which actually the opposite) but they will not agree that Muhammad(pbuh) is Allah's messenger.
No Buddhist will use the word Allah because there is no God in Buddhism. Anyway for Hindu they have their idol names. The only religion that will or might use it is the Christians and maybe Sikhs. We know how the Christians is actually the devil work of Saul and the teaching by Prophet Isa is not like what the Christians practice nor the current bible is the book mentioned in our Holy Koran.
For me, if you understand that if one say only muslims are allowed to use the word Allah, then you are also acknowledging there are OTHER GODS? Muslim God, Christian God, Hindu God?
Who dares to say that only muslim is entitled to use the word Allah. Anyone who says that his God is Allah is better than saying his God is another thing. This people is easier to Da'wah.
If our beloved prophet says OUR GOD to a Christians, so will I.
TQ.
I try to get the source from IIS later.
Assalamualaikum..
ReplyDeleteto imm..
kalau tak keberatan boleh cari dalam blog saya entri (2 entri berbeza) dec 2008 - 1) Tuhan itu esa - bible dan 2) kalimah Allah dalam kristian..
sori tak dapat bagi link sini.. internet slow..
salam, oh ya.. kalau bible in malay version, biasanya terbitan dari indonesia.
ReplyDeletebukan kes baru kan isu ni.. bible saya tak pasti terbitan tahun bila tapi ayah saya belikan tahun 1996, keluaran indonesia. Buku lagu rohani di church kampung saya pun dah agak lama dan dah ada sebut2 Allah
Ayah saya ada bible yang dah agak lama sebab ayah saya bekas katekis (pemimpin gereja), balik nanti saya cuba tengok.
Kalau bahasa kami pula, "tuhan" itu disebut lain lagi.. tuhan dalam bahasa kami maksud lain iaitu runtuhan
******************
Astaghfirullah
Maha suci Allah
Assalamualaikum
ReplyDeletei try to clarify something. what really happened in indonesia now and then is being applied in malaysia right now. i write about this issue briefly in my blog.
what we have in indonesia is actually the work of dutch orientalist named christiaan snouck hurgronje. he was employed by dutch east indies (VOC) to infiltrated Muslim opposition especially in acheh. acheh in that time was like kelantan. its their 'serambi Mekah', where for decades Muslims fighting wars against colonial dutch.
eventually they tried other method to forced achenese into submission. one of the method they used is what we have nere today, using word 'Allah' when refering to christian god.
while in some part i agreed with ahong, (some part only), we argue the doctrin of 'god' in christianity itself. and rather that doctrin is fit into what Islam has teach us in Al Quran and As Sunnah about Allah The Allmighty, which in my opinion, is not. in Al Quran Allah said 'He begets not nor is He begotten'. this clearly answered what the christian claim fo holy trinity and the oknum, what-so-ever it is.
as in Usul Al Fiqh, there is Qaidah of Sadd Al Zari'ah of Zara'ik. its means in simple term as blocking the means. in practice its better to close the door which can lead to destruction even before the disasters itself occur.
in this case like i said earlier there is 'mala fide' or evil intention involved in this issue. we can see before this the catholic claim they have right to use word Allah refering god. if you all remember hindu sangam has claim injunction to intervene in this case, as they also claim right to use word Allah when refering hindu deity. and also we can see they gain support not only from same religious faith, but from other faith such as buddhist, sikh etc. its in reality is an assult toward Islam and Muslims in malaysia.
Wasalam
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article on your blog brother. Lets think of it in a reverse way. People in this region always have the fear of Christianity. And it is because of this mind set that most will actually not learn other religion other than their own. Without clear understanding of Christianity the people will know the truth of this religion. If one know Christianity well, he/she wont be trapped by the Christian missionaries.
ReplyDeleteOk going back to looking back at reverse, if we look at the western world, more and more people are reverting to Islam. The question is why? The best answer to fit that is because the of the da'wah done by our brothers and sisters in the western world. This people came to a conclusion that there is corruption in their religion (Christianity) and then find the truth of Islam. How do we share Islam to people who tries to find God/Allah? Do we say something like' you know YOUR GOD is false?'
or ' YOUR GOD IS NOT GOD ?'. I would say 'you know OUR GOD is....'
Its easy to reason out that Jesus is not Allah. Even the Coptic Christians knows that. A sane mind will.
In the Malaysian case, I will only blame myself of not doing enough da'wah. Malaysia have so many muslims but how many tried to reach out to the non-muslims? I have talked to some Asli people and most will tell you that muslim here will help in their reversion but eventually they will stop visit and it ends there. While the Christian missionaries will come over from time to time and they will bring money and gift in every visit.
As for the conversion of Malay muslims to Christians, I can tell you that its not because they were confused of Christianity but its because they are confused by the Islam practiced in Malaysia.
'Christian easy ma, Islam so hard'
I heard this words before.
We have so many muslims and we cant fight a bunch of Christian missionaries? Anyone can see how strong the Malaysian muslim's faith is. After so many years of independance, how many of us spread the truth and share Islam to the non-muslim. Maybe thats the reason the late Ahmad Deedat call us Malaysian muslim spineless 'obor-obor'.
Bad intention only can only appear because of there is a 'chance'. That chance or weakness is from us. Anyway the Hindu sangam will not succeed because even if they do, will they call all their deity Allah? Same name? Hahahaha... 'membuka pekung di dada'
I look on the positive side of the name 'Allah' to be used by the Christians. They will not succeed to convert the literate people, they will look for the people who are illiterate and do not have knowledge in Islam. They will look for the people who are abandoned by the muslims in Malaysia.
I am sorry if I offended anyone with my ideas. Maybe I just look at the situation in another angle.
Wsalam
Salam Semua;
ReplyDeletePandangan saya begini. Tujuan mereka sebenarnya bukan untuk kegunaan mereka sahaja tetapi mempunyai serampang dua mata. Kalau kerajaan luluskan penggunaan Kalimah Allah itu, maka mereka akan menjalankan Propaganda untuk mempengaruhi orang Islam yang tipis Islamnya dan remaja2 Islam yang kononnya ingin hidup bebas bahawa 'TUHAN KITA SAMA = ALLAH' cuma yang membezakan ALLAH ISLAM banyak larangan TETAPI 'ALLAH' mereka memberikan KEBEBASAN hidup bebas, minum arak dsbnya... fikir2kanlah... DAKYAH MEREKA MEMPUNYAI NIAT DISEBALIKNYA.... awasi anak-anak kita..
Salam,
ReplyDeleteI'm getting into both opinions here. While we should take advantage of the use of Allah by Christians we should also on the other hand be very careful with any hidden agenda. While more literate muslims look forward to da'wah with the non-muslims it will take a great effort to ensure that the less literate one (quite a number) will not hooked up to the opposite beliefs. About the use of Allah in Indonesia, I've stumbled upon them through reading their novels back at secondary school. I recalled reading 'Karmilla' where the author frequently uses 'tuhan', 'bunda maria' and Allah at the same time. It was quite confusing at first until the part when the main character visits a church then only I realize she is a christian. Even the term 'naudzubillah' was used when the main charater refer to bad occurences.
Waalaikumussalam azlan,ahong,
ReplyDeleteThere've been many cases of born Malays becoming murtad, of Muslim reverts among orang asli who turned to Christianity, and one of the reasons is the use of literature in Malay. When words used are similar, people can easily become confused, especially among the less-educated and not-so-strong Muslims.
ahong, the issue here is not about trying to turn Christians into Muslims by using His Holy name. The real issue is whether we agree to let the Roman Catholics to spread their Christian teachings among Malaysians using the terms "Allah", solat, Kaabah etc, which all this while has been gazetted as words relating to Islam. Should we allow Roman Catholics to tell people to pray to Allah - in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit? Would allah be pleased with us, the Muslims in Malaysia if we allow that to take place?
Waalaikumussalam KakChik, imm,azlan,ahong, mal887, jr,
ReplyDeleteKakChik & imm, Yes, well said..
Have you ever wondered why this issue of wanting to publish newsletter using the terminology is brought up only now, and not decades ago? Wonder why only in these few years we hear about born Muslims becoming Christians etc?
ahong, Amar Makruf Nahi Mungkar. We have been given the hidayah, we think hard but not everyone will have these gifts. That's why we need to do dakwah to others, and at the same time esure that our own Muslim brothers and sisters are not swayed by the Christian propaganda.
mal887, agree with you.
If you are already confused by those terminology, imagine a young Muslim teenager who is just learning about Islam and have close friends passing the literature about a Christian Allah to him/her.
Waalaikumussalam Sakinah,
ReplyDeleteYes, I do understand that the natives in Sarawak have been given Christian literature in B.Indonesia. We are not protesting the use of B.Indonesia bibles for Sarawakian Catholics but the use of the name 'Allah' to refer to God as worshipped by Roman Catholic Christians in the Malay version of the Herald newsletter.
I quote you "Kalau bahasa kami pula, "tuhan" itu disebut lain lagi", so why still insist on the term 'Allah' when other words could be used?
Indonesia may be the most populated Muslim nation but the laws of that country is different from what we practise here.I for one, do not wish to see what's happening to the general Muslim population in Indonesia to occur here in Malaysia.
Assalamualaikum
ReplyDeletei stand by your opinion kak Aliya.
Wasalam
Salam kak Aliya.
ReplyDeleteTrue. The issue here, as i said earlier, is how the usage of Allah in the christian publication would be used to confuse the simple minded muslims. Yes, maybe we are quite fortunate to be able to differentiate Allah in Islam and in the christian minds, but then again, not everyone is capable of having our way of thinking.
While the effort to take advantage of the christian deviation is good, we should first see the adverse effect that might be the outcome of this usage in the future. It is always better to prevent than to cure.
Assalamualaikum sis,
ReplyDeleteI find some interesting material and I would like to share and its regarding this topic as well. Thanks
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015812
Waalaikumussalam ahong,
ReplyDeleteYes, thanks for the information. Readingislam.com is a large website and it takes a long time to read every article. So alhamdulillah for ahong's latest comment.
I quote from http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015812
" Let us now look at the Arabic word Allah - we can immediately recognize the English word “all”, indeed we have herein one of the best characteristics of Allah’s attributes; The All-Knowing, All-Seeing, All-Hearing, All-Merciful etc. Every baby born anywhere in the world has, as his first utterance the short “a” sound. No new born ever cried out with an “s” or a “t” or a “d” or a “b” sound! All exclaim the “a” as an expression of the oneness of humanity, in relation to its Creator.
Also, all final deathbed gasps exhale the “h”, the last letter of the name of Allah. This is because He is the First and the Last! When we scream in pain or cry out in fear, or grunt and groan during strenuous exercise or disgust, or exclaim in joy or surprise, it is the very same… “ahhh”, and not the “g” of the word God that we all emit. This reality is intrinsic in our innermost selves, something out of our control!!
Why is this so, you may ask. It is because the word Allah refers to the concept of that which all turn to for refuge and repose. Without finding this state of rest and security, we are in a constant state of frustration and irritability. Our souls all yearn to reach the place of contentment, which can only be found by knowing Allah as He has revealed Himself to us, in the Qur’an.
Another interesting facet of the two related languages is the relation of the words “man” and “woman”. The word “man” (mim, nun) in Arabic is the personal pronoun for the human being, as in the English word “man”. Both languages use the term also in the sense of “who”. Therefore, the usage of the term “man” is nearly identical in both languages!
The word “wa” in Arabic means “and”. In English the word “woman” could be seen to be derived from the concept of a partner to the man. Therefore, the woman or “waman” as it might be more correctly rendered, can be construed as meaning “and-man” or “together with man”, the couple which forms the very essence of the human race… "
Well.. that's something we can add to our dakwah to non-Muslims :)
Assalaamu'alaykum sis aliya,
ReplyDeleteInshaa Allaah you are well. Haven't been to your blog in a while, very enlightening articles mashaa Allaah!
About this issue.. perhaps it is solely political, what do you think..?
Perhaps some non-Muslims in this country are trying to 'push their luck' and see how far they can go when it comes to dabbling in issues that involve Muslims..
It really isn't about "We want to use Allaah" but more of "Let's see how much they will bow down to our demands in Islamic matters.."
Just food for thought.
We don't go dabbling in their religion, but they are happily doing much damage to ours, and sadly, the politicians have no knowledge or sense, and have allowed it all because of political standing.
May we all fear Allaah and not His creation, ameen..
actually,
ReplyDeletei read this in the most esteemed blog of the most esteemed alliance (the MBA) however, since i am an unworthy kaafir, i am not allowed to register and post my comment there. such an exclusivity is a must i guess so as not to tarnish the esteemed preciousness of the esteemed members of such esteemed alliance. but i get so itchy to comment, i came here.
the actual problem is, there are alot of happy and jolly atheists and nature worshipers in the rural east of east malaysia. in another word, there's an abundant of resources, gold to be mined by the missionaries of both sides. after all for Christians and Muslims alike, numbers is everything. that's why everyday in very many tv channels we'll here such and such (depending on which Chanel you are) religion is the fastest growing or largest religion or the most popular crap etc.
So the missionaries on both sides are fighting for the souls of poor rural dwellers there. converting and reverting and reconverting is a norm. you give them a dollar, they'll attend the yaasin at the surau. give them ten, they'll go to the church mass the very next day. such wise jolly good community. they don't actually care if god is called allah or bart simpson for that matter.
but for the missionaries, numbers is everything. a certain number of converts will give them one point which can be redeemed to get on step up to the heaven. its that crucial. so tricks needed to be employed. dirty tricks included. among them are using god's name interchangeably. also, promising (but not necessarily fulfilling) basic necessities like clean water and school for kids if you are at the "government" side.
and if you have "power" you can also strike the movement of the other side using the resources you have as being on the side of power, namely the court. so when the christian uses the word Allah to confuse the poor jolly good community to confuse them further about this religion crap that they have no other need except the few dollars received by attending masses and yaasin, the muslim went crying to the court.
i am an atheist. no god can have my soul. but i say inshallah every time i make promises. and when i am in a state of unbeliability, i'll utter jeses christ! i say ya allah and mashaallah every day too. i am an indian an as an indian islam has always been part of my culture. so has christianity. it has nothing to do with my affliction to either deity. and i am very sure the poor jolly good atheist community in rural east share the same sentiment as me.
only the missionaries who are racing towards the heaven's door are so passionate in getting the right to use Allah.
Ya Allah!!!
Hi Shalini,
ReplyDeleteSince you say you are an atheist, it means that you do not believe in God at all, so I will write it in a scientific way. But reading your comment, I feel the need to clarify something you wrote.
Religion is important because it affects the way you live. You also have a religion and it is called scientism. This governs the way you act and think. You put science at the very top above all things. That means that you do not believe in anything else except so called logical science.
Well for you information, science comes from a very long history. And the very root of science is Islam. You see the modern science must come from a foundation laid out by the muslim scientist. You learn this in 'history' in school. To give more prove in this, many atheist have thank Muhammad(pbuh) and Islam in the contribution to science.
I do not appreciate the story and of missionary and the language involved in your explanation. It only show that you are not mature and you do not understand Islam or Christianity enough. I suggest that you learn about Islam or Christianity.
I understand the condition of 'poor rural dwellers'. More than u can understand them. I used to live among them. TQ. Islam as a true religion of God never allow is followers to use 'dirty trick'.
Lastly, you contradict yourself by saying that you are an atheist and you think that Islam and Christianity is a part of your culture. If Islam or Christianity is a part of your culture then in some way you believe that God exist and that contradicts with you being an atheist.
As an atheist you do not believe in heaven of hell as well. I believe that you have a identity problem. You are more like a teenager drown in Hollywood and Bollywood culture rather than an atheist.
You said that as an Indian, Islam has always been part of your culture. That is not true. Yes the Malay culture is very similar to the Indian culture but not Islam. (No where near or similar in any condition)
Many scientist came to learn that God exist and Islam is the truth. I pray that one day, you will open your heart to God.
Dear Ahong,
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking so much of time in analyzing my life. i am very flattered.
However, (and please, i am so sorry to be the one breaking your bubble), i do not have any religion. a simple google search gave me the definition of religion from wikipedia "A religion is a set of tenets and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, or religious law. ...". Most other definition are also almost the same.
see, i do not believe in any form of supernatural being and the only set of moral values i follow is that which suit me and they are never specific. prayer? ritual? i'd rather waste my time see my dog wag his tail than to perform any ritual or prayer.
and please, i do not know what scientim is, much less be a member of such religion.
and, yes of course, i agree hundred percent with you that the root of science is islam. in fact the root of humand kind as a whole can be traced to islam, yes? (kind of reminded me about the russian who claimed they built the toilet seat before others discovered they can shit)
ad yes, you are ultimately correct too. i am a complete immature asshole as much as you think. ad please sir, with my limited capacity, the most i can read now is Pulliankuzhu (it's a very nice story about the journey of a butterfly by the renowned children book writer Vaikom Mohamed Basheer). Please do not expect me to read more on such deep subjects of the profound religions such as Islam and Cristianity. However, if you can (and i am sure, being as enlightened a person as you are, you certainly can),
1. please explain to me, Can the word allah be used in arabic version of the bible.
2. if it can, wouldn't that also be considered an insulted to the esteemed Islamic God, the original Allah?
3. If it is also not allowed, please suggest an appropriate arabic word to replace the word Allah. my arabic is not good but God in arabic, as pointed by the writer of this blog is Ilah and when u attach "The" prefix to show the singularity it becomes Al-Ilah or Allah. Please suggest sir, so we can proceed to make amendments to all bibles before the original Allah gets pissed off and sue on copyright infringement.
4. is the restriction of the use of the copyrighted word only on bibles, or do we need to rewrite all other holy books of other religions too?
sir, being a former poor rural dweller, how is the current condition of your life now? i hope you are enjoying better conditions of life and not subjected to daily conversion rituals for a plate of rice.
Sir, being a complete idiot that i am, it is unavoidable that i contradict myself every time. however, what i mean is only this. although i am an atheist, every body dear to my life are theist of one variety or another. most of them are muslims and christian. so, by being surrounded by the rituals of christians and muslims, i have unknowingly adapted the cultural values of my people. where i am living now, when we meet people on the street, we say assalam alaikum, whithout even bothering which god the person worship. that is our culture. of course sir, this village is not in malaysia.
and i have an identity problem too. sir, your ability to analyize people is outstanding. please sir, can we meet for some fortune-telling session.can you read my palms?
i am very fortunate not to be born or become a scientist sir. otherwise i also will have the unfortunate destiny of learning that God Exists!!
Now sir, please enlighten me of those numbered question.
till then, i remained yours, as always, devoted. :)
Shalini without-a-public-profile ,
ReplyDeleteHmmm, I see that you are still itchy to comment? hahahah..I know mahaguru well, and he'd refuse to admit people like you for one obvious reason - you prefer to find fault rather than to seek the truth about your own existence. You yak-yak-yak as you like, but obviously you won't accept our explanation. No siree- it's more fun for you to point fingers and make snide remarks about people, God and missionaries. Tsskk, tssk, tskk, you make a mockery of yourself actually.You have eyes but you refuse to see, you have ears but you refuse to listen, you have a brain but you refuse to use it to think and reflect. A "rejecter" ( I will not use the arabic term) is what you are, and we shall not waste time entertaining you.
Salam ahong,
ReplyDeleteGood reply to Shalini but she is an obvious "rejecter", don't fall into her trap of leading you along a string of questions.When a person clearly hides under a pseudonym of anonymouse named Shalini,he/she does not merit any answers.
Waalaikumsalam sis,
ReplyDeleteYa, its obvious. Anyway I was bored then. Haha.
Its kinda sad to have this type of people in this world. I already guess where this will lead to when I read her comment. (maybe this is one reason why I deleted my old blogs).
I will only answer one question by miss Shalini,
She asked:
sir, being a former poor rural dweller, how is the current condition of your life now?
My answer:
My life gets better everyday. I worked hard for Allah so my life is beautiful and meaningful now. There is a sense of relief and i felt like a big burden was lifted off my back.
To miss Shalini, if you like to continue asking question, you have to email me at cheehongz@gmail.com
madam aliya,
ReplyDeleteso, you are his type :) No wonder i find your scribblings here an easy target
when real questions are asked, it is very typical for your types to resort into cliched accusation such as "blind and deft" and what not. the real questions remains. do you have any response to that? please tell.
by the way, your argument that muslims own the copyright of the word Allah in Malaysia because islam came to this country before christianity is heart shatteringly enlightening. i have very many genuine doubts to ask regarding that "logic". however, i shall hold them for now. do you have any response to my earlier question?
and ahong sir,
i must assume now, that you too are their type based on selective response you gave above. how is it possible that you have ample time to answer one question which is not in anyway important but find it necessary that i contact you personally for other relatively very important questions? please do not create smoke screen sir. do you or do you not have a response to my numbered questions above? if not, please as always, fold your tail between your legs and simply move away.
oh, and if it really matters that this discussion is continued via email, please send the response to my email address x.shalu(at)gmail.com i do not see the need to email you because you i already asked what i wanted to ask. You have the question now. if you have the answers too, please, and i am begging here, please share it with me
thank you
Obviously Shalini is new to this blog and my previous discussions with other anonymouses, hehehe. For a self-claimed aethist, she sure is more eage than the Catholics themselves over this issue :P
ReplyDeleteAgain I repeat, the first Arabic bible appeared in the 9th century and there was never the word "Allah" in it.The so-claimed original Biblical text in Hebrew too, the word "Allah" is never found. So it's proven that Arabic Bible has no word "Allah" only "ilah" or "elah". So why should be a need for it? Can? Why can, while they've never used it at all? hahahah..
All her 4 questions had already been discussed and answered in our previous comments so there's no further need to do so, heheheh. The only holy book that I know of in Malaysia written in Arabic is the al-Quran,and Allah is as we all-know, the name revealed by our Creator to prophet Muhammad through malaikat Jibril, so why should I think of an Arabic term for another person's god when they don't read their holy scriptures in Arabic? I am a Muslim! Shalini's question is what the Chinese call "kong-kam" hahahaa.. and I'm only commneting because I'm free today :)
LOLS!
ReplyDeleteUnlike you, i am not free today. however, i am putting all my other task on hold so that i can indulge in this mind tickling "discussion".
ReplyDeleteSo, first of all, lets see the construction of the word Allah it self. The root word, Ilah is not a proper name. not until Muhammad decided it is anyway. it is just an arabic phrase which means The God. Al-Ilah.
Before islam came, every arab speaking person call their god (whomever it might be) as Allah or The God. Al- (as in the) and Ilah (as in God).
from wiki : "Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".[3] The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.[6] (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God)."
and here is a very interesting quote from daarul Ehsan http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/truth/faq.htm#Allaah
Allaah is the Arabic word for "one God", the same as Eloh in Armaic. Allaah is not God of Muslims only. He is God of all creations, because He is their Creator and Sustainer.
aliya : So it's proven that Arabic Bible has no word "Allah" only "ilah" or "elah"
At this point, i would like to request you to prove that there are words such as Ilah or Elah or Olah or whatever in the bible. any version. any language. please show me the mention of the word God (Ilah, Elah, Oleh) without the prefix Al (The) in the bible. As a reciprocal gesture, i am sending you here a link that documents the existence of the word Allah in the Arabic version of Bible. Now, I do not know which century this translation were made. but it is there anyway. and this piece of work is documented by muslims who quite funnily wanted to prove that the God in bible is indeed the same as God in Quran. I am wondering, which one of you guys are pissing off Allah at this moment :) Here's the link http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/BibAllah.html
So, I have proven to you that the word allah exists in the original form of its spelling in the arabic version of the bible.
Now, if you please, tell me if it is an insult to the original Islamic God, Allah (who by the way borrowed the name of the Chief God of pre-Islamic God of Kaaba, also Allah) or not.
If you have already discussed this matter and my other questions in your earlier post, please show me where, because i cannot find it.
Greetings,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading this article and contrast that out with the writting by Khalid Samad ( the MP of Shah Alam). I like the ability of the writer to know everything but some people do have that ability.:) . Do read a bit more and you will find out that many assumptions are not what it is. yet I respect your writtings.
From Ah Hong's blog...
Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from God? those who incurred the curse of God and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!" (The Noble Quran, 5:60)"
No magic trick here and note that "God" is "God".
Anyway, I am a christian and have been reading quran as well. I think it is easy to come out with assumptions as truth. I am not perfect, and Christians ( and the church) is also not perfect because the praise is only for God and conversion/reversions are by Him. Does God need protection? Does He need our concerted plan to go into war with other people? Does He need me to argue and judge others?
Ladies and gents, the way i see it is the lack of security and respect. Government arbitary decides on bans and that sets of reaction. It then set of another reaction when the Church is seemed to be bold. The fact is that IF the government speaks to the experts and consults the different parties with respect, this would not have happened.
I respect your rights to use the name Allah, God or whichever. Maybe it is time to forgive and kill the hatred spirit?
The parody is that since then, government has also banned the word Allantunya and Razak baginda.
May God/Allah shines on you.
Greetings amoker,
ReplyDeleteI certainly don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion. As Islam is the official religion of Malaysia, the government of the day has a great responsibility in safeguarding the interests of the Muslims and at the same time, ensuring that those of other religions are able to practise their own religions in peace. Fairness is important aspect in Islam but if there a greater danger that allowing the name Allah to be used to refer to the god of Christian would lead to confusion and disharmony among the people, then it should be nipped in the bud. I don't care a hoot about the terms used for God by those in other countries,but it has always been the understanding of Malaysians for generations especially in the West Malaysia that Allah is the name of the Muslim God. Say Allah to a Chinese ahpek or an Indian babu and they'd 99% would mention Islam. I've nothing against Catholic Christians but I think the Herald made an unwise move.